Holistic vet Scarborough

I figured there was a need for a thread on Holistic Vets.

If you are comfortable with your traditional vet, thats fine you won't need to continue any further, unless there is something you feel your regular vet can't help diagnose or resolve with your pet.

For those who expect more and want to find a vet that doesn't rely solely on prescriptions/vaccinations and old school thinking, you've come to the right place, please read on.

So many people are now better educated regarding better pet nutrition, minimal vaccines and general well-being and care of their pets, but don't know where to go about finding a vet that understands and shares the same ideology as you.

Who and what is a Holistic Vet

To find one in your area of Canada, here is the link to the Canadian Holistic Veterinarians -- please choose properly in the advanded search section!

Please note there are some regular vets out there who are quite open minded, and continually update their skills & knowledge regarding the latest care and treatments for your pet. They are rare, however there are some around....

I'll start off by listing these well-known and well-respected holistic vet clinics:

DR. PAUL MCCUTCHEON , DVM
EAST YORK ANIMAL CLINIC
805 O'CONNOR DRIVE
TORONTO , ON M4B 2S7
CANADA
Phone: 416-757-3569
Fax: 416-285-7483
Modalities Practiced: [Modality Quick Reference]
AC AK BF CH CR[AVCA] CN CT GT H EAV NAET NU IAT MA REIKI WH
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL

DR. CINDY KNEEBONE , DVM
EAST YORK ANIMAL CLINIC
805 O'CONNOR DRIVE
TORONTO , ON M4B 2S7
Phone: 416-757-3569
Fax: 416-285-7483
Modalities Practiced: [Modality Quick Reference]
AC AC[IVAS] BF CH CT CM GT H HMTX NU MT VOM WH BIORESONANCE, DARK FIELD MICROSCOPY, VARIOUS THERAPEUTIC LASERS
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL

DR. RONA SHEREBRIN , DVM CVA
SECORD ANIMAL HOSPITAL
3271 YONGE ST
TORONTO , ONTARIO M4N 2L8
CANADA
Phone: 416-486-1700
Fax: 416-486-1795
Modalities Practiced: [Modality Quick Reference]
AC[CHI] BF CH CN CM NU MA WH
Practice Preferences:
SMALL ANIMAL

DR. AUTUMN LOUISE DROUIN, D.V.M., N.D.
NORTH-EAST NEWMARKET VETERINARY SERVICES987 DAVIS DRIVE
NEWMARKET, ONTARIO L3Y 2R7
CANADA
Phone: 905-830-1030 [for pets]
SERVICES & MODALITIES
Detailed case history and physical examination.
Diagnostic aids: blood tests, urine analysis, fecal analysis, allergy testing done on-site or sent to a professional laboratory. Electro-dermal screening for food and environmental sensitivities, environmental allergies, and organ balancing.

Treatment modalities: homeopathy, homotoxicology, botanical medicine, clinical nutrition, lifestyle counseling, Bach Flower remedies, intra-venous fluid therapy, and physical therapies such as NAET [www.naet.com] and Matrix Repatterning [www.MatrixRepatterning.com].

Conventional drugs such as antibiotics, corticosteroids, antihistamines, and hormones are used infrequently, but are available when necessary.

If you know of a good holistic vet, or even a very open-minded [and somewhat] traditional vet, and would like to share their info, please do so here!

Choosing between a possible scam artist and a real vet..All homeopathy is a scam. Only the gullible believe it can do some good other than as a placebo.

Wow tough choice...

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green

king_george wrote:

Choosing between a possible scam artist and a real vet..All homeopathy is a scam. Only the gullible believe it can do some good other than as a placebo.

Wow tough choice...

agree with the point on homeopathy... serial dilutions beyond avogadro's number obviously doesn't make any sense [as an offside, there's a youtube video from a professor from i think princeton.. or was it yale? on the failings of homeopathy theory. its great].

that being said, holistic does not equate to homeopathy [i.e. UBC's faculty of medicine teaches a holistic approach... and has nothing to do with homeopathy ]. i'm all for a holistic approach to medicine, but homeopathy on the otherhand isn't my cup of tea. my current "traditional" vet has been pushing for/scheduling annual vaccines for things that should be repeated every few years.. i'm switching to somewhere else [will actually be seeing if dr kneebone will be accepting new patients], but will not be seeing a vet that practices primarily/only with homeopathy

ritsbits wrote: agree with the point on homeopathy... serial dilutions beyond avogadro's number obviously doesn't make any sense [as an offside, there's a youtube video from a professor from i think princeton.. or was it yale? on the failings of homeopathy theory. its great].

that being said, holistic does not equate to homeopathy [i.e. UBC's faculty of medicine teaches a holistic approach... and has nothing to do with homeopathy

]. i'm all for a holistic approach to medicine, but homeopathy on the otherhand isn't my cup of tea. my current "traditional" vet has been pushing for/scheduling annual vaccines for things that should be repeated every few years.. i'm switching to somewhere else [will actually be seeing if dr kneebone will be accepting new patients], but will not be seeing a vet that practices primarily/only with homeopathy

Absolutely spot on. That's why I said possible scammer because "Holistic" can mean anything, although if they use real compounds then there can be effects on the animal. Might not be the desired effect, but is is an effect.

My vet uses the three year rabies vaccine and only gives boosters for anything when required, not by a schedule. We recently had give her a bortadello[sp] booster so she could be accepted at a kennel while we're on vacation in two weeks. Other than that, no needles for Emma this year other than the blood test.

Still homeopathy is nothing but voodoo on humans, it's almost abuse to use it on pets who can't be analyzed by the Q&A methods so loved by the homeoscammers.

I used to be a research assisstant for a large pharma company and my job was to help design, perfect and critique proposed tests and collate testing data for the stats nerds to go over. I have never ever seen a clinical trial by any homeopath that even met minimum design standards. Not a one.

I care for my dog way too much to allow the homeoscammers to use her.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green

king_george wrote: Absolutely spot on. That's why I said possible scammer because "Holistic" can mean anything, although if they use real compounds then there can be effects on the animal. Might not be the desired effect, but is is an effect.

My vet uses the three year rabies vaccine and only gives boosters for anything when required, not by a schedule. We recently had give her a bortadello[sp] booster so she could be accepted at a kennel while we're on vacation in two weeks. Other than that, no needles for Emma this year other than the blood test.

Still homeopathy is nothing but voodoo on humans, it's almost abuse to use it on pets who can't be analyzed by the Q&A methods so loved by the homeoscammers.

I used to be a research assisstant for a large pharma company and my job was to help design, perfect and critique proposed tests and collate testing data for the stats nerds to go over. I have never ever seen a clinical trial by any homeopath that even met minimum design standards. Not a one.

I care for my dog way too much to allow the homeoscammers to use her.

oh man, funny that you mention the rabies vaccine. my current vet's documentation and secretary insists that the vaccine they gave is only for 2 years and that "most people don't know about this one." the name slips my mind at the moment, but i can't find the product online, except for the 1 and 3 year variants. they want to jab her again [along with lepto and distemper... again...] in a few weeks. not happening. as its documented to be 2 years on her chart, hopefully dr kneebone et al. will be able to sort things out for us..

one of the classes i had back in pharmacy school discussed homeopathy; the professor pretty much summed it up with how homeopathy was born from poor initial study designs and rampant confounders . something about how the father of homeopathy's results couldn't be replicated in any other lab [nor he himself replicate it], and how his published paper was a stain on that journal's history. if it can be proven by a rigorous study with good design, then in my eyes it doesn't work . oh, did you hear about their theory on "changing the essence/oscillation of water molecules" in defense of exceeding avogadro's number? you gotta give them credit; they're creative

back on topic, my old vet was Dr. Lisa Wong, formerly of the warden animal hospital. according to OMVA, she has moved to the Forest Hill Animal Clinic at 1049 Eglinton Ave W [assuming that they're the same person]. she was quite nice, knowledgeable, and didn't push repeat vaccinations or anything; if she was closer, i would have preferred to continue with her services. unfortunately she moved, and i'm not pleased or satisfied with her replacement. will not be going back to that place again. looking forward to see how the east york animal clinic does things

I like Dr. McCutcheons' approach and his book is a valuable resource.

Please try out his clinic for holistic care and no, I have no financial interest in this suggestion.

With our beloved 'boy', my daughter took him to Secords previous 'holistic' vet for a second opinion [he was in heart failure and on regular meds but ailing] and she was a total scam artist.

Short of a heart transplant and a time machine to make him a pup again, he could not continue on but she was making all kinds of crazy, just plain crazy suggestions.

It ended with me telling her to stop giving my daughter false hope where there was none.

Went back to our regular vet at the end.

I always avoid Secords, have never had good luck there, going right back to Dr. Alan Secord. He told me my cat was a baby, when the cat had a fractured leg!!

ritsbits wrote: one of the classes i had back in pharmacy school discussed homeopathy; the professor pretty much summed it up with how homeopathy was born from poor initial study designs and rampant confounders

. something about how the father of homeopathy's results couldn't be replicated in any other lab [nor he himself replicate it], and how his published paper was a stain on that journal's history. if it can be proven by a rigorous study with good design, then in my eyes it doesn't work

. oh, did you hear about their theory on "changing the essence/oscillation of water molecules" in defense of exceeding avogadro's number? you gotta give them credit; they're creative

More off-topic but yes I've read literally hundreds of so-called trials for homepathy and none of the almost-clinical trials show any better veracity than a placebo. You cannot use a placebo on an amimal of course...Ever notice that homeopaths can't cure any serious diesase or condition?

I've read about that theory. Don't forget the magic "water memory" theory. It's a howler. It seems that when a claim is shown to be impossible, some believer invents a new baseless "theory" *cough choke* to explain the unexplainable. I'm sure they don't even know what a theory is and you can't pull a theory out of your anus and expect it to be taken seriously.

Most of these "trials" and I use the word very loosely, are simply believers looking for confirmation and therefore massaging data to reach a pre-determined conclusion. Almost no double blinds, no triple blinds and very very few sample subject stats such as age range, general health, etc etc.
It's funny how no positive results are ever duplicated by non-homeopaths by using rigourous standards. Never ever.

Back on topic, I think my vet is great, actually they are all great at the Oakville Animal hospital. We got a clean bill of health for Emma and no shots are required this year. They even trimmed her nails, cleaned her ears and gave us samples of new types of food to try all for free at her yearly exam.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green

ritsbits wrote: oh man, funny that you mention the rabies vaccine. my current vet's documentation and secretary insists that the vaccine they gave is only for 2 years and that "most people don't know about this one." the name slips my mind at the moment, but i can't find the product online, except for the 1 and 3 year variants. they want to jab her again [along with lepto and distemper... again...] in a few weeks. not happening. as its documented to be 2 years on her chart, hopefully dr kneebone et al. will be able to sort things out for us..

You should insist on seeing the vial of the vaccine they use. It should say right on there. The vet I used to work for used either the Imrab-1 or Imrab-3 vaccine.

hermit crab 2010 wrote: I would never go to a holistic vet, its just a gimmick... stick with a traditional vet, who went to medical school.

mmm as far as i'm aware, they both go to the same form of school... and i wouldn't want a vet who went to "medical school"... how would they know what to do on an animal, when they were trained on the human body? :/

You should insist on seeing the vial of the vaccine they use. It should say right on there. The vet I used to work for used either the Imrab-1 or Imrab-3 vaccine.

yeah, my friends told me that as well. i was debating whether or not i would drop by the place, but the secretary insists that i must see the vet [to see a vial? lol], which means an appointment and more payments for services not rendered. figured it would be easier to just go somewhere else... that, and i *think* its highly likely that my dog got the rabvac 3/3-TF, since the only other option is the rabvac 1 [which they would have taken the opportunity to have me go back right after year 1 for additional billing]. kinda just don't want to go there anymore and have to deal with the frustration of arguing with them

ritsbits wrote: mmm as far as i'm aware, they both go to the same form of school... and i wouldn't want a vet who went to "medical school"... how would they know what to do on an animal, when they were trained on the human body? :/

I'm referring to veternary medical school.

hermit crab 2010 wrote: I would never go to a holistic vet, its just a gimmick... stick with a traditional vet, who went to medical school.

wow...I'm speechless

hermit crab 2010 wrote: I'm referring to veternary medical school.

you have no idea...

FYI a regular "traditional" vet and a holistic vet all went to the same veterinary college [in this case, OVC -- University of Guelph, if referring to vets in Ontario]

all vets take the same core subjects, however the holistic vet students took additional courses such as nutrition [so they actually do know more about proper pet nutrition] plus additional courses....

here is some information on CAVM [COMPLEMENTARY & ALTERNATIVE VETERINARY MEDICINE CLUB] who's mission statement is:

"To provide information and first hand experience to veterinary students about current practices and research in complementary and holistic veterinary medicine."

OVC does offer holistic courses for equine, cattle and of course small animals so go find out for yourself if you don't know

please get your facts straight before making ignorant blanket statements, which can mislead others due to your ignorance

Javeman wrote: Thanks for the list of vets to avoid.

that is your choice, however please refrain from posting further comments if you have no actual knowledge of the differences between the veterinary practices

Javeman wrote: Thanks for the list of vets to avoid.

Iv4n likes to perfomr public services for pet owners...

Get ready for the inevitable threadcrapping and insults from Not-Dr. Iv4n....

ETA: Oops too late.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green

king_george wrote: Iv4n likes to perfomr public services for pet owners...

Get ready for the inevitable threadcrapping and insults from Not-Dr. Iv4n....

ETA: Oops too late.

if you have nothing to of value to contribute, why not just leave this thread alone?

you are proving yourself to be the threadcrapper, do yourself a favour and quit before you make a mockery of yourself

here's a suggestion, create your own thread titled: "Traditional Vets I Can't Live Without"

now kindly excuse yourself from posting further comments in this thread, otherwise I will escalate it to the mods so that others won't need to put up with your garbage here

comon guys... the other thread was already ruined and locked by mods. lets try to keep this thread from going the same route... . if you don't agree with the content within, create another thread extolling the virtues of what you believe in... or traditional vets in this case.

as an aside to those who think that holistic means homeopathy and quasi science, next time you see a physician for that cold/etc you have, you might want to ask where they graduated from if being seen by a "holistically trained" individual is a problem. many of the medical schools in canada are trying to take a more holistic approach to patients lol

1V4N wrote: if you have nothing to of value to contribute, why not just leave this thread alone?

you are proving yourself to be the threadcrapper, do yourself a favour and quit before you make a mockery of yourself

here's a suggestion, create your own thread titled: "Traditional Vets I Can't Live Without"

now kindly excuse yourself from posting further comments in this thread, otherwise I will escalate it to the mods so that others won't need to put up with your garbage here

But mom he started it!!!!



I'll post my opinion despite the threadcops thank you very much. My posting is very much on-topic without demeaning other people. You're the one tossing around words like ignorant and telling people to stop posting, not me. What's your qualifications again? I think I missed them.

Now please kindly stop insulting other posters for having different views. Oops forgot who I am talking to..

Hey ritsbits...I just found out on the weeekend that my vet will refer you to a pet massage therapist, a pet "Touch Therapist" where they say they manipulate the energy fields around pets and as the bonus, a "University Certified Pet Homeopath Expert". An oxymoron on so many levels it seems.

I think they may get a referral fee from the scammer...

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green

king_george wrote: Hey ritsbits...I just found out on the weeekend that my vet will refer you to a pet massage therapist, a pet "Touch Therapist" where they say they manipulate the energy fields around pets and as the bonus, a "University Certified Pet Homeopath Expert". An oxymoron on so many levels it seems.

I think they may get a referral fee from the scammer...

lol what? sorry i had to read that twice . that's pretty ingenious... think about it. i wave my hands around your pet a few times, put a constipated/concerned look on my face every now and then, then pretend to tweak an invisible car engine in the air. put a satisfied/relieved look on my face afterwards. explain to you about how your pet's chi/life force/electomagnetic field/midi-chlorians were "out of sync," but are fixed for now. bill for several hundred.

as a bonus, i will include free magic water that cures cancer, baldness, chronic illnesses, and give your skin that sheen that you've always wanted. magic beans not included.

--back on topic--

homeopathy and what not withstanding, i honesty think that it's the pet owners responsibility to understand what is being done to their pet... so that they can make an informed choice as to whether or not what they are doing is "right". holistic versus traditional vs homeopathy/quackery is irrelevant in that sense... one must always think for themselves when it comes to what is being done with them/pet.